�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�? McCloskey, Jay
�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�? �?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�?�? McCloskey, Jay, interviewed by Greg Beam, September 7, 2000